During May, 2001, a thread occurred on the tandem discussion list, tandem@hobbes (http://hobbes.ucsd.edu/tandem/) that related to introducing people to tandems and the types of tandem couples that would be likely to succeed or fail. As the primary instigator of this exchange, I distilled a digest of the discussion. The text has been cleaned up, run through a spell checker, punctuation has been corrected, etc. Aside from a reference to the person making the submission, I have removed all of the usual heading and closing lines. Some prior references have been removed, while all references to prior notes that are left in this digest have been put in Italics. People that are thinking about a first tandem or that have a tandem and introduce others to tandem riding are likely to find this exchange interesting - Alan Wickman
From: Dennis L. Whitehead
Greetings:
My wife/stoker and I had the great pleasure of giving tandem rides to some prospective tandemists today. For weeks, we'd planned to give riding instructions to Alan and Joyce Wickman. It always rained... But, today we were determined! Yup, it rained briefly at the start, but not much.
We arrived early at the head of a rails-to-trails trail. As we were unloading two of our tandems, another couple, Scott and Courtney parked next to us. They marveled at the site of two tandems in the back of our pickup. I went over and spoke to them. "Would you like a ride?" I asked. The answer was an enthusiastic yes from both! Scott went first. I gave him some cursory instructions on being a stoker and off we went! I could see the grin on his face in my mirror. Yup, I think he was hooked!
Courtney was next. We rode. We talked. She loved it! Another one hooked!
Scott and Courtney are engaged to be married. He actually proposed to her in the snack shop of a trailside bicycle shop! I suggested that they might give themselves a tandem as a wedding present. We hope to see them soon on a tandem of their own. I gave Scott a card with our e-mail address on it in case they want to contact us.
Back to Alan and Joyce. They arrived while I was giving the impromptu rides to Scott and Courtney. Alan has been lurking a bit on T@H. He's got a good conceptual basis for all-things-tandem. But, Alan and Joyce needed that first ride together! My stoker/wife, Jeanette, and I gave Joyce some instructions (The Proper Method) and off we went. Joyce seemed to enjoy her ride very much. We rode. We talked. She found it to be much easier than she'd anticipated. Great!
I gave Alan a ride. (Talk about a heavy team. Together, we were a 500 lb. team.) Next, he rode the tandem stokerless to familiarize himself with the length and controls. Then, he and Joyce were off on their own. Jeanette and I followed them at a distance. They did a wonderful job! I'm pretty sure it won't be long before they have a tandem of their own.
It was so much fun to be able to promote, in a very real way, the riding of tandems!
Take care & happy trails,
***** END OF POSTING *****
From: Alan Wickman
I had lurked on this list for several months, not because I own or ride a tandem, but because I was interested in getting one for my wife and I. My wife wasn't as sure about a tandem as me, however. Several weeks back, I made a posting in response to a thread on racks, because it related to a brand of rack that I had experience with. In that posting, I mentioned that I lived in Lincoln, Nebraska, and that I hoped to get a tandem sometime in the next year.
Shortly after, I received an E-mail from Dennis and Jeanette Whitehead (also from Lincoln). They offered to take me and my wife for a test ride. Dennis described this in a posting earlier today in which he related that he also gave stoker rides to another couple with a lot of bicycling interest that is engaged to be married. He made it sound very nice, and that's the way it looked to me, too.
Truly, I can see that tandem riders tend to be sociable folks, and it's a good thing, because a lot of people will want to ask them questions. To be sure, Dennis and Jeanette Whitehead are sociable and generous as well, because they aren't going to make money giving free test rides. It's a darn nice way to make friends, though.
My first test ride was an interesting experience. It helped a great deal that I had read all the usual references on the list, but there is still no substitute for riding. First, Dennis took my wife Joyce for a ride as stoker. She LOVED it. It was my turn next. As a stoker, it was really hard for me to fight my natural tendency to steer by leaning, even though I knew that I'm not supposed to do that. It's a credit to Dennis that he was able to handle a 245 pound stoker. Next, I rode the tandem for a few minutes as a single to get used to the brakes and the shifting. No problems with the controls, but the steering was just so different - kind of like towing a trailer with a car, yet it was twitchy at low speeds. It will definitely take me some time to get used to that, because it's not nearly as maneuverable as a single bike. We finished our session with about a 5-mile ride with me as captain and my wife as stoker. Dennis and Jeanette followed on another tandem. We had no mishaps and my wife enjoyed the ride, but it is clear to me that I will need a lot of practice, especially maneuvering a tandem at low speeds in tight places. Actually, the test ride was a bit tougher on me than on Joyce, because the bikes were small for me (I'm 6'3"), plus I had the control difficulties associated with being a newbie. But I understood that I'd be in for all of this, and I wasn't the one that needed to be sold. The bottom line on the ride is that my wife's view of a tandem purchase went from "maybe next year" to "like to get one this year." I've still got do a little figuring with the checkbook, though.
I will probably have a few questions to ask about Brand X versus Brand Y over the course of the next month, but that isn't the purpose of my posting today. Besides, I've already spent hours poring through the archives. I'm kind of what you would call a knowledgeable neophyte.
Related to this whole experience, in the last day or two, Paul Kopit stated (in part)
"We also have to recognize that most people that try tandeming don't stick with it and that people reading this list aren't typical."
This really got my attention. First off, I agree that people that follow an Internet list on tandems are probably more enthusiastic about tandems than those tandem riders that don't. But that's not important to me. The important item relates to those that try tandeming and don't stick with it.
First off, I hope that I'm not making a mistake by getting a tandem. I don't think that I am. But also, when I get a tandem, I would like to be able to emulate Dennis and Jeanette (and probably many of the rest of you) by promoting tandem riding to other people. Yet I probably shouldn't push a tandem purchase to a couple that is unlikely to keep using one, because I'm hardly doing them a favor to encourage them to spend thousands of dollars on something that they'll end up selling at a loss a couple of years later.
I could certainly see a lot of reasons that a couple might get a tandem and then stop using it. The first reason, of course, would that the couple ceases to be a couple. I doubt that I will ever try to make any judgments on that. But the second reason would be that the couple found that it really wasn't interested in tandeming. A third reason might be that lifestyle changes (i.e., kids or jobs) might take away the time necessary for recreation. To the extent that I can foresee these potential problems, then I might be able to give the couple a better rendition of the pro's and con's so that they can make a better decision whether or not to get a tandem.
This would be my impression - It would strike me that couples where both of them are already regular bikers would have a very good chance to enjoy tandeming. The chances for couples where one is an avid biker might be pretty good or pretty bad depending on a complex set of factors, but particularly on whether the second person really wanted to make it work. I would think that a couple of non-bikers would have a tough go, although I also find it hard to imagine that they'd ever get a tandem in the first place.
If Paul Kopit is correct, then the odds seem to be stacked against me. And yet I don't feel that they are. Do most couples fail to stick with a tandem? If so, am I missing something when it comes to the reasons why?
***** END OF POSTING *****
From: Deb Bush
Alan, good morning. Enjoyed your post on the web at T&H. When Dennis and I bought a tandem, we really had sticker shock. We wondered whether we would "stick with it". Well, three years later and four bikes with another planned... we are definitely "stuck".
As a nurse, I see so many people come into the hospital with poor health (related to inactivity) that finally has caught up with them. Obesity is a major problem with joint health and diabetes. Some form of exercise or health promoting activity needs to be established prior to the overwhelming impact of cumulative body damage that further restricts an individuals' wellness and their ability to recover from illness. I am talking about premature old age and preventing or delaying compounding degenerative illness.
Biking is also the way we keep our relationship healthy as we work on maintaining fitness. So, we are focused on the optimal expression of wellness and a good relationship. For us, we are not racers or time trialists (but I like to go fast and will pass anyone I can ;-), so a stable bike that really shines in the downhills is our choice. (Yes, Iowa has hills.) We know about the options available in different geometrical designs and were able to make wise choices. Talking to folks who have different skills and abilities and differing goals helped us to define what kind of riding goals we have. Our geographical location has a major impact on the type of riding we do.
We thought that buying a used bike was wise...and it was. Now, as we contemplated selling our older mount, our son said "Don't sell it ... what are we going to learn on if you do?". Aha! a major hook. We look around our neighborhood and see people riding bikes where three years ago all bikes were old, unridden by the newest generation and stored in the back of the sheds. Now the neighborhood kids all have bikes and go out with Mom & Dad for “a ride.”
Never underestimate the power of setting an example. We are currently active in the local bike club and have seen an increase in membership there as the sport is popular in the middle age and older group and in families with kids. Tandeming is a major presence in our local club and growing. Nothing sells like success and enthusiasm. A side benefit is that the folks who are attracted to experiences, as I am describing, are mentally healthy and a good influence for kids. I have read where 30% of health is genetic and 70% is lifestyle (based on long-term people studies) and we think that riding a bike together is healthier than riding a car or motorcycle together. Participation in community club activities can be another creative outlet and great satisfier as it promotes cooperation. On a tandem, most teams are able to work to their maximum abilities. Stay focused on the whole experience and safety skills at first and later work on individual goals such as form, pedaling, etc. Plenty of room to grow but remember the "fun factor" because it is the strong root of the tree of relationship and communication; one grows this tree stronger through tandeming.
You won't find people who don't like each other on a tandem. Someone has to captain and someone has to let someone captain. Someone has to stoke and many a stoker has "brought home" an exhausted captain. Teamwork really shines on a tandem and it shows. Enjoy! and get a bike that fits both of you and one that is comfortable ... it is the wisest advice I can give you. And a brag ... our "team" has dropped 25 pounds of fat in the last 9 months. Good luck.
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From: Mark Livingood
You sound like you two are on the right path. The best indications are:
Simply put, IMHO the introduction of a tandem into a great relationship makes it an even stronger one. However, a tandem brought into a weak relationship can, in effect, be the 'coup de grace' of that relationship. The latter is obviously the extreme, but I think you get the point. To make my point, let suggest the formula for failure would be a scenario that is absolutely 180 degrees from the path you are on...
Again, these are extremes in each case, but the point is you're steps thus far all seem to point towards good juju for a long and successful tandeming experience. Be a good captain and you'll have many wonderful experiences together on your tandem -- because, as I'm sure you learned in your research, the stoker is ALWAYS right. As for becoming an advocate, it comes naturally.
P.S. This is about the only place you'll see tandemists in violent disagreement. I think it has something to do with the fact that the person posting does so without their partner present!!! Speaking for myself, I'm a much better person because of Debbie and it shows when she's not around to smooth out my rough edges.
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From: Dave Johnson
Mark Livingood wrote:
3. The first riding experience is attempted by the inexperienced team using the trial and error process which, in most cases, can be quite scary for the person on back.
We recently bought a used Santana. We don't know any experienced tandem couples, but I (the captain) read a lot, and especially paid attention to anything having to do with stoker comfort. "The Proper Method" was the most helpful. I wasn't sure if my wife would like tandeming, but I thought my kids would, so the bike wasn't too big a risk. I think by being obviously concerned with her comfort, (The first thing I got for the new tandem was a new stoker seat) and giving her instructions like, "If I forget to call a bump that's uncomfortable, let me know about it." "Tell me if I'm leaning too much." I let her know that I wanted a team, and not just her tagging along with my hobby. She wasn't all that interested in cycling before, but since riding the tandem, she's asking about maintaining her single bike, so she can ride when I'm not here. We've probably rode farther together on the tandem so far this year than she has solo in the 2 or 3 years before.
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From: Mark Livingood
Pre-emptive Clarification:
Hopefully my "recipe for disaster" didn't leave the impression that any one of the extreme examples would, in and of itself, spell trouble for a new tandem team. I tried to contrast the great path Alan & Joyce were following with a succession of events that were all 180 degrees from the one they are on.
My goal was to answer Alan's question:
If Paul Kopit is correct, then the odds seem to be stacked against me. And yet I don't feel that they are. Do most couples fail to stick with a tandem? If so, am I missing something when it comes to the reasons why?
By compilation, I created a scenario for limited long term success using examples representative of things I've seen or heard of from folks who found that tandeming just wasn't for them.
I believe that if each extreme example in the scenario is taken one at a time, failure is not a foregone conclusion. To the contrary, if at least one of the other elements is addressed (i.e., there is a joint decision to give tandeming a try, a little bit of research, a strong degree of trust between partners) then a successful tandeming experience is quite likely.
My apologies if I slighted anyone who has successfully embraced tandeming under less than optimal conditions. IMHO, Alan & Joyce seem to be on a path to tandem bliss.
***** END OF POSTING *****
From: Garth Wilson
A third reason might be that lifestyle changes (i.e., kids or jobs) might take away the time necessary for recreation.
and
I have read where 30% of health is genetic and 70% is lifestyle (based on long term people studies) and we think that riding a bike together is healthier than riding a car or motorcycle together.
I always hate to hear friends say they don't have time for any form of work-out. The idea of course is that it's only recreation and it cannot be justified when success is more important somehow. Although the "work before play" childhood training rule is mostly good and teaches self-discipline, an undesirable outcome is that people pursue success at the expense of their health. Perhaps it's hard to swallow the concept that the middle-class person with his health and a sound marriage is far richer than most of the wealthy.
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From: Clive George
Mark wrote a 'How not to start tandeming' guide...
1. Someone acts on impulse and decides they want a tandem without doing much if any research.
It wasn't quite impulse - I like cycling and there's no way the two of us can ride together, we knew one couple with a half-decent tandem (and another with a very crap one), so a tandem seemed the obvious way to go. I'd been overtaken by the tandem while riding solo so I knew how they flew down hills - I wanted revenge! I don't remember doing any research... (oh - we'd been going out for about 7 months)
2. The intended riding partner is not involved in the process and, is in fact quite surprised by several things: The purchase of the tandem (money); the assumption by the purchaser that this is something the intended riding partner wants to do; the lack of consideration shown by not including the intended riding partner in the process. (An alternative scenario is where the intended riding partner is unenthusiastically pulled along which can sometimes produce additional problems; however, the tandem dealer will know where someone can get a great deal on a hardly used tandem.)
We left Cornwall, our walking holiday having been cut off short by the rain. I hadn't even fed Sarah any coffee and she was feeling quite groggy. I suggested we stop off at St John St Cycles 'just for a look - just to see what's available'.
We went in, the choice in touring tandems within our budget was quite small (it was 1996, and even more limited by my desire for proper size wheels (700c)), and given our relative sizes (6'2" vs 5'0.5") it was quite easy - a 23/19 Dawes Galaxy twin. We didn't even get to ride the bike (SJSC don't let you - but that's a separate rant) - we just checked to see it was big enough at the front and small enough at the back. While Sarah was still in shock I paid the man and we left. Within a couple of days a huge box arrived at my work. It was too big to go in the lift so two of us carried it up the stairs. I assembled it in the office and rode it home.
3. The first riding experience is attempted by the inexperienced team using the trial and error process which, in most cases, can be quite scary for the person on back.
I just thought “I can ride a bike, a tandem can't be much harder...”. First ride - 4 miles into town and back. Much fear. Second ride - about 30 miles round trip to a friend in the fens. Slightly less fear. Third ride (or was it the fourth) - we hit 50mph down the hill into Giggleswick (near where we now live), Sarah's feet came out of the pedals as I was still spinning at that speed (48x13 top gear). Frightened but exhilarated on the back, 'whee!' on the front.
4. The first several riding experiences are all accomplished solo by the new team and lacking the encouragement and support that a fellow tandem team can provide, trial and error continues to take its toll.
Our first (?) ride with a fellow tandem team was a bit of a disaster. We'd ridden the bike about 200 miles. I took a twisty downhill far too fast and couldn't slow enough for a corner, so gave up trying to steer and just used the other lane to stop in instead. We didn't crash (or even leave the tarmac) but it was interesting for a moment. Later on we hit a pothole and destroyed the rear rim. Grr, must remember to keep lots of air on those tires. We abandoned the two stokers (we later discovered with my wallet and 100 yards from a pub), took the remaining bike home and fetched a car.
5. The partner never has a chance to gain any enthusiasm and any future success will require an intervention by a successful and happy tandem team.
This is where our story diverges. Fortunately Sarah isn't the sort of person to be put off by little things like fear or discomfort. (She was the one who suggested buying a mountain tandem while her leg was still in plaster.) She's been persuaded as to the merits of proper bikes and is possibly even more of a tandem advocate than me. She has been heard to say that the tandem made our relationship. We are in the process of living happily ever after.
Revenge came too - we're always first down the hills when we go riding with our friends (although they have been slowed by children these days).
The stoker is ALWAYS right.
Nah!
As they say, YMMV...
***** END OF POSTING *****
From: Allison C. Wymore
Hmmm... Why do people quit tandeming, and are the odds stacked against Alan and his wife....
I've heard a lot of people refer to tandems as "divorce bikes." I think that it does take a certain type of couple to ride a tandem and enjoy it. There are a lot of couples who get on a tandem and fight each other the entire time - not verbal fighting - fighting for cadence, speed, etc. There are couples who get on a tandem and each person has entirely different opinions of what the ride should be like. If person 1 wants to take a leisurely cruise, sightsee, smell the flowers, and person 2 wants to hammer, there will be trouble. There are a lot of couples who buy tandems as an impulse buy - "Gee, wouldn't it be romantic to have a tandem - won't it be fun..." but then get home, ride a few times, never put in the effort to learn to tandem well together, and the bike becomes a permanent fixture of the garage. Also, many couples resort to bickering and blaming each other when things go wrong - i.e. captain loses control and nearly dumps stoker off bike, then yells "don't shift your weight around back there!". This makes stoker angry and maybe unwilling to ride the bike again. Finally, many people start a family, and they don't have time to tandem anymore, and don't view the sport as a high enough priority in their lives to make the effort to buy a trailer or other means of involving the new baby. I think these are some of the main reasons that people don’t stick with tandeming.
If you want a tandem, by all means buy one. Over 50% of marriages end in divorce, but you don't stay single just because the odds are bad!
I'd say that if the following things are true, you are in pretty good shape:
We had lots of people tell us - "You want to buy a tandem? I knew a couple who bought one and were divorced in 6 months" or "You are buying a tandem? Those are SO hard to ride - you'll never be able to work together." Well, we showed them...
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From: Jim Russell
My view is that tandems are "relationship accelerators" (at some time in the past someone gave me that term.)
If the tandem couple can't get in synch, it will be noticeable that much faster. It does not mean they will get divorced automatically. What a couple may need from a marriage may not require that they be in synch all of the time.
If they can get in synch, the relationship has that much more cement (shared experience, interest, etc.) to bind it together.
What we wanted from our marriage (and to some extent from out tandeming) was a complete partnership. The health and emotional benefits from tandeming made it a tool toward that goal.
Allison's list for us could have been replaced with music (since I was an amateur and my wife a professional musician). But the last aspect of competition (really mine with myself) made it very difficult. Bicycling (not being either of our vocations) gave us the better scenario.
(Un)Fortunately the by-product of being healthy and in communication with my wife was our son. The first few years of family cycling were tricky. Since what we want with our child (emotional and physical health, shared experience, social skills, family sharing...) is similar to what we want from tandeming, we are moving up to a triple.
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From: Gregory Przybyl
From time to time newbies to the list are asking how to get their partner interested in tandeming. Well this past weekend found me taking out a potential new stoker for her first tandem ride. Considering that a "long" ride for Barbara is an out and back on a 9 mile flat rail to trail bike path (read no hills at all) I knew I would have to significantly pare down my expectations of a 40 miler as a short "intro" ride.
So out comes the Rubel Bike Map of Eastern Massachusetts to check a route I already had in mind. For those that have no idea of what a Rubel Bike Map is, it is a map produced by a local company specifying good cycling roads throughout Massachusetts with hills indicated on these roads (along with hostels and ICE CREAM shops). They are an excellent resource for cyclists, did I mention they point out ICE CREAM shops? Once I had checked out the route I had in mind I then loaded it into Delorme's Topo Program (V 3.0 most excellent software) and checked the elevation profile just to be sure. Everything looked good and doable for a first time tandem ride so I downloaded the route into my Garmin GPS III Plus which I relegate to the stokers handlebars. The criteria I used for the tandem ride, less than 20 miles, relatively flat (for New England), pretty scenery, at least one ice cream stop (actually had three, two homemade one commercial), and at least two other eating places, even the weather cooperated, it was relatively calm, sunny and 70-80 degrees.
The ride started in Concord, MA headed up to Carlisle, MA and back to Concord with a loop to Great Brook Farm depending on how we were doing. It seems like the ride was a complete success, many complements and smiles were coming from the stoker compartment throughout the ride. The only bit of bad luck we had was when someone cut us off, the good news is the stoker was suitably impressed with A) the tandem's braking power and B) my reaction time. So what could have been a bad thing actually turned into a good thing.
So for those interested in getting a partner happy about tandeming I found food and ice cream stops really perk up people's attitudes, keep the mileage down unless you're both seasoned riders to begin with, and make the route interesting. The toughest thing for me was trying to remember that you can have as much fun on a 20 mile ride as you can a 100 miler.
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From: George Rutherford
The discussion of personality types and likelihood of success or failure with a tandem is interesting to me. After hearing about the great demo and introduction to the sport that Alan received, I recalled that my stoker and I have done similar for a few dozen folks considering a purchase. And, our own tandem decision was made after a good friend gave a demo and then lent us his tandem - for a week! As I write this, we're considering a travel tandem, and still another friend from out of town, has graciously arranged to meet us next weekend for a test ride. I imagine that many (most?) of the folks on this list have either given or received similar hospitality.
Of course, part of the reason is that good tandem shops and demo rides are far and few between. And, as enthusiasts, we like to see others have the opportunity to enjoy the sport that we do. But I have a related theory: perhaps the same kind of personality which lets tandeming work well for a team, also makes them tend to be outgoing. A social, gregarious nature might lend itself to hosting other potential tandem teams.
So, what do you think? Have many of us given/received this kind of introduction? Do you (as a team) often initiate conversations and/or meet new folks during a ride? Are there many of us who are relatively private, leaning toward the introvert personality - rather than extroverts? My guess is we wouldn't be on this list if we were...
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From: Maury Cohen
My own feelings about tandems and relationship are that there's nothing that can make or brake (sp) a relationship like riding a tandem. I feel that riding a tandem distills the essence of relationship itself in the form of a bike ride. My stoker and I have slightly different riding styles on our singles as well as different personalities. All come to a head(tube) while riding the tandem. Our Masher/spinner selves must find a happy medium (or get very frustrated), our stubborn selves go through changes as we ride. I've always found that cycling actually is a cathartic experience as far as "cycling" the upsets right out of my system. Not to say that there aren't hard stretches where I'm struggling with letting go of "being right" or tear stained apologies at the roadside as our friends ride by asking if "everything's ok?" We always get there together. Though we're still not married we do live together and have sold MY Burley Samba in anticipation of OUR Calfee Tetra Tetra. I suppose the new bike could be construed as an engagement (chain)ring. Or two or three...
P.S. Yes, I'd agree that the stoker's always right!
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From: Michael K. Cinibulk
Alan wrote:
If Paul Kopit is correct, then the odds seem to be stacked against me. And yet I don't feel that they are. Do most couples fail to stick with a tandem? If so, am I missing something when it comes to the reasons why?
Well, I'll reply since we are new to tandeming and are going through this phase now. While I am an avid cyclist, my wife is not. Yes, she has a road single and MTB, but they are 15 yrs old. We also have four young children that demand the vast majority of our time. We do ride solos with the kids whenever we can; the youngest (4) is on a trail-a-bike behind my MTB. Tandeming together alone means finding a babysitter. If we could ride together once a week I would be really happy. It's really a time thing and finding a babysitter, more than anything, as we both love it once we can get out together. As the kids get older this will not be an issue. They will either be able to stay at home by themselves or be able to draft behind us!
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From: anonymous2
My husband and I are both extroverts and I would guess that most tandem enthusiasts are as well because:
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From: alex wetmore
anonymous2 wrote:
My husband and I are both extroverts and I would guess that most tandem enthusiasts are as well because:
I am an introvert (generally shy until I get to know someone).
1. Tandeming turns a solitary sport to a team challenge that requires co-operation.
Yes, but the person that you are teaming up with is generally someone that you know. I've never ridden on a tandem with someone that I didn't already know fairly well.
2. When riding a tandem people call out to you and smile etc. This might turn off the introverts who were trying the sport.
This hasn't been an issue for me.
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From: alex wetmore
I just wanted to respond to this thread since my wife and I don't come close to meeting the requirements that many people on here are recommending for a happy tandem couple.
It was my choice to buy the bike. My wife was willing to test ride them with me and doesn't mind riding, but it isn't her favorite activity either. We do sometimes argue about cadence and other typical tandeming issues.
Our tandem rides together are often very different than my solo rides. We are slow on the tandem, but we have very enjoyable stop and smell the flowers type of rides. Christine likes the tandem better than her single because she doesn't have to pay attention and can look at houses, gardens, mountains, or whatever else is handy. Our rides aren't long or fast. On Saturday we did about 25 miles of riding, and that is typical.
I often ride with stokers besides my wife. I don't really consider the tandem to be a relationship bike because I often ride it with people who I'm not in a relationship with. This summer I'm going to be doing a weeklong tour on the tandem with a friend of mine.
I see the tandem as giving us a way to spend some time together enjoying one of my hobbies (cycling). This is similar to the time that I spend in garden working with my wife. I don't spend a whole lot of time there, and gardening isn't my hobby, but we enjoy working in the garden together sometimes.
If you are a hardcore cyclist (some might argue that I am, but I don't really think of myself that way) and get a tandem expecting that your non-cyclist wife will enjoy hardcore riding then you probably won't have much fun together. If you go into tandeming with an open mind, don't push it onto your regular stoker, and do rides that they want to do then you'll probably have a happy tandem relationship. Just save the fast (or in my case hilly) rides for when you get home.
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From: Michael K. Cinibulk
I agree; and this is more or less where we find ourselves. Our tandem rides together are a little more casual (though not any slower) and shorter than my solo rides tend to be. The hope is that my wife will grow to love cycling and that we can make it a part of our lives, be it casual Saturday morning rides or extended touring. I still have my solo for when I want to ride harder or longer.
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From: David Christ
When selling tandems I always said there were three things needed for success.
One final item from the soapbox. My wife and I are rather put off by this "the stoker is always right" thing. It's a team. The team is always right. The team members express their opinions and an agreement is reached. We are either right or wrong together. Together, that's the word.
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From: Brian Jensen
This reminds me of one of the more humorous posts on T@H a couple of years ago. The thread was regarding relationship issues of stoking/captaining with someone other than your significant other. Dave Patton replied:
The recent thread on whether captains should dare ride with stokers other than their mates awoke a troubling suspicion within me - I fear my stoker may be stoking with someone else! Oh, all the usual telltale signs are there: my seatpost being left in a higher position, the average speed display indicating a higher average than I'm capable of (oh horrors, the culprit must be taller AND faster than me!), the smell of cheap wine and cigarette smoke on the brake hoods, etc.
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From: Helmut Springer
David Christ wrote:
3. The riders must be able to compromise on issues relating to riding style etc. The cadence may be slower than the captain likes but faster than the stoker likes. Similar compromises must…
I think make that “one” and “the other,” there are teams where the stoker does the more and faster riding with higher cadence. Pretty few though it seems, judging from what I see on the streets...
One final item from the soapbox. My wife and I are rather put off by this "the stoker is always right" thing. It's a team. The team…
Yup, and I happen to be stoker at the moment 8)
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From: Gregory Przybyl
David Christ wrote:
One final item from the soapbox. My wife and I are rather put off by this “the stoker is always right” thing. It's a team. The team is always right. The team members express their opinions and an agreement is reached. We are either right or wrong together. Together, that's the word.
Actually my rules are 1) Stoker Safety is first. 2) Captain Safety is second. 3) Stoker Comfort. 4) Captain Comfort. 5) Make up the rest as you go along.
If something my stoker wants to do violates 1-4 it doesn't happen plain and simple. I have even had to dress down a stoker on occasion for not telling me how they feel on a given day because 1/2 way out on the route the stoker says something like, "I haven't felt well all day and I don't have any energy left". My response is well why didn't you say so at the ride start so we could have adjusted the route accordingly or not do it all? That has to be my number one pet peeve because then it's all you for getting the two of you home. If you get ill while riding or just even tired, fine, we all have our off days and that's when teamwork really counts, but to start a ride very much under par and not tell your team mate (it works both ways) is a very bad judgment call in my opinion.
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From: Paul Kopit
The great majority of adult bicycles are garage bicycles, not just tandems.
The odds may be high but the ri$k is not that high. If you are patient, you can buy someone else's garage tandem. If it doesn't work out, you can get money back from selling it again. AND, speaking about odds, here in CA, if you marry, the odds are 2 to 1 against you of staying that way.
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From: Dave Hayes
anonymous2 wrote:
My husband and I are both extroverts and I would guess that most tandem enthusiasts are as well because:
1. Tandeming turns a solitary sport to a team challenge that requires co-operation
2. When riding a tandem people call out to you and smile etc. This might turn off the introverts who were trying the sport.
I tend to be introverted, and I don't think it matters. All you need is one like-minded friend or mate to enjoy tandeming. Being waved to and smiled at is nothing like the close personal contact with strangers that can make some introverts uncomfortable.
If we’re going to engage in saddle psychology here, I'd think that having only one other person to interact with for extended periods (the duration of many road rides) could turn off a strongly extroverted personality. Or at least encourage them to seek out group rides.
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From: Anonymous
My stoker/wife and I are newbies to tandeming also. We bought a new Burley Duet near the end of last summer and put about 1000 miles on it before the start of ski season here on the North Coast. We were both casual bikers, rail-trails and bike paths mostly. We had ridden a couple of long rides (MS 150) and really enjoyed them. I was a little stronger rider than Bonnie so we sometimes got separated a bit during our long rides. We had looked at and talked about a tandem for at least a year when we decided to rent one. It was a cheaper mtb (with under inflated tires). It wasn't the best bike ride for us to put it mildly. She was not comfortable on the back with no control and I wasn't comfortable trying to handle that snake of a bike. After talking to a few more knowledgeable riders we were convinced we might be more comfortable on a better quality bike. The demo rides at the bike shop really sold us on the tandem and that shop. We love the big bike (the dogs hate it and have started to get fat) and have not touched the 1/2 bikes since we came home with it. We had to compromise on spin speed, well she has learned to be comfortable with a higher speed because of my knees. As much as I hate to, we slow our down hills a little (at the end of the season we did hit 46mph with her help and approval). I did a lot of announcing shifts, coast left foot down, etc. when we started last year. She has adapted to my riding style and has told me I don't need to announce most of them. The only down side for me is that I don't get to look around as much, spending much more time watching for bumps and traffic (oh yea, we ride too fast now for the bike path in the park).
Bonnie told me that she would not have any weekday evenings free this coming fall to ride our weekly social ride and I would have to go back to my 1/2 bike. I very innocently told her I thought I might be able to find another stoker (great for promoting tandems). You would have thought I wanted to bring someone else to bed. She was near tears. She is now taking summer classes to free up one evening for our rides this fall. I would give up our 1/2 bikes and skis before the tandem. The best (and most) recreation money we've ever spent.
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From: Tom Hesselman
(Alex Wetmore’s earlier posting was referenced, but it is quite long.)
Wow, that describes my wife and my situation almost exactly. We've been tandeming for 10 years. Tandeming is OUR hobby. Bicycling is MY hobby, gardening is HER hobby. We do both together.
Saturday comes, I say, "Are we going riding today?" She says, "No, I'm working in the flower beds." I jump on the Eddy Merckx and do 55 miles at 17 mph, get home and work in the flowerbeds with her for awhile. She says "Yeah, we should load the bike up and go (fill in the blank)." We load the bike up and go someplace and ride 25/30 miles at 12.5 mph. We both love it.
I ride 6000 miles a year, WE ride 1000 miles a year! I'm perfectly content to ride the same routes all the time. I ride to ride. She'd rather "Go someplace" and "See something" so that's what we do. I like it because it gets me out of the rut, she likes it because we go see something!
I've somehow magically worked her cadence up to where she pedals 80/85 without saying "Boy, we're really GOING today." She doesn't even notice cadence any more. She knows my every move. We seldom talk about the bike while riding, she has a 6th sense. I handle the bike and she handles the conversation topics! She nods politely when I say "We should change the middle ring from 38 to 39, I think it's too low." I nod politely when she says "We should put pink and gray stuff in that bed by the shed, wouldn't that be cool?"
Every year when the Santana catalog comes, she looks in there and picks a ride saying, "I always wanted to see (fill in the blank)." We send in the money and start planning! This year it's Durango, CO, over July 4th.
It's the greatest thing that's happened to us, this tandeming. I just ordered us a new $6000 tandem and she didn't flinch, now she's telling people on the phone, "We're getting a new bike, do you believe our old one is 10 years old already?" But we're buds anyway, so the bike is just cement. I can see, however, that it could tear you apart if that's happening anyway. Like most things, it's what you make it!
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From: George N. Wells, CPIM
George Rutherford posed an interesting question: "perhaps the same kind of personality which lets tandeming work well for a team, also makes them tend to be outgoing." Does outgoing mean "extrovert?" Well, not really. But then, Linda and I might be the exception that proves the rule. Why? Well, for starters we are both in the Myers-Briggs classification ISTJ -- That's right, Introverts - and ISTJ's are the worst variety!
Actually, Introverts don't dislike people or being with people -- it just drains our batteries. Were quite aware of the fact that other tandem teams start chatting the minute they mount their tandem -- and usually don't stop talking the whole ride. We, on the other hand, mutually enjoy the quiet and the rhythm of pedaling.
But, we do enjoy the company of others. We like being on group rides (albeit our speed teaches us to leave the start point about a half hour before everybody else so that they can say "Hi" as they pass us mid ride -- despite the early start we're usually last to finish.) So, tandeming appeals to both the extrovert and introvert. But, I guess that you both need to be of the same ilk. I couldn't imagine a long tandem ride with a stoker talking to me constantly. Then again, an extrovert wouldn't find my silence enjoyable either.
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From: David Popham
Hi All,
A comment from a newbie re below.
Mark Livingood wrote:
4. The first several riding experiences are all accomplished solo by the new team and lacking the encouragement and support that a fellow tandem team can provide, trial and error continues to take its toll.
We live in Victoria, B.C. Canada, and other than seeing Jim Jaarsma and his wife riding from time to time, tandemers are few and far between. We learned about tandeming indirectly by kayaking in a double kayak. It was in it that we learned the pleasures of sharing the same experience almost simultaneously. The advantage of kayaking is that the captain sits in the back so that the shorter person (in this case my wife) had full access to the view.
We thought if we could kayak why not try a tandem. As I mentioned before we had no lessons and a very poor fitting bike. Despite two strikes against us what we learned was that we could be together, even on the hills.
With our new bike fitted for us we are now learning by trial an error, cycling for no longer than 1 hour at a time. We started out using cycle paths, very straight and quite level (trips 1 and 2). Next it was two trips around the city along slow drives and down a busy street with a bike path (3 and 4) with the 4th one going up a demanding hill. Our latest trip was traveling in a suburb next door that has many hills so that we could get used to the idea changing the front derailleur. The last trip was especially important because prior to then we had concentrated on RIDING THE BIKE. We discovered that on the last one we were "chit-chatting" while moving along.
So I believe that we can provide refinements to point 4 regarding trial and error taking its toll. If a prospective team is isolated, then patience with oneself and one another becomes important. So does setting modest goals and accomplishing them, thus creating a winning attitude after each ride. Similarly, accepting that mistakes will be made, learning from them and then moving on builds teamwork and sense of accomplishment (oh the gears that I have ground, and the bumps I have failed to call). Making sure that the bike has been fitted well is also important. We are finding that we are gradually raising the seats. Having fun during the ride is especially important.
Re the last point. On our 4th there was a young guy on a solo bike about one hundred yards in front of us. My wife suggested that we catch up to him and pass him. We did, road kill by two oldies, and he was so annoyed (he caught up to us at an intersection). We were dead tired at the end of it, but giggling with delight. But above all what has worked for both of us has been keeping in mind Bill McCready's essay on The Proper Method.
Although I have no evidence to suggest it, I believe that tandeming will experience exponential growth over the five years. Tandems were really rare once here in Victoria. As they become more common rather than being a novelty more people will make the switch (anybody know about Markov chains ;-)). Further, IMHO tandem bike builders can help things along by changing some of their marketing strategies. For example, Victoria is simply too small to expect a LBS to carry six tandems of a single brand. Could more of them follow Da Vinci's lead?
Finally I believe that this forum, is an important factor in tandeming being the success that it is.
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From: Paul Kopit
Well, to add something to the other side of bliss.
A former lady friend, and not former because of the tandem, quit in the middle of two weeks of touring. It was something called Moosa (ME, Quebec) and Lighthouse Tour (Nova Scotia). She actually quit 2x during the course of the tour(s). I found a couple of willing stokers and did ride the tandem solo. The mutineer, was a great athlete and stoker, we just couldn't survive together and I am equally to at fault. My red Cannondale is nicknamed "Bounty".
Another friend and lady is an excellent rider. We did plenty of training rides together including a 200k that was to lead to a qualifying series for PBP. After and organized century, we had a lunch meeting and she quit. I didn't pedal smoothly enough and it made her back ache. She's likely right. She's a USC racer and I just endure.
http://www.caltriplecrown.com/Fame.htm#PK
We are still friends and aren't and weren't romantic friends either.
PS: There are people that are willing to ride with me.
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From: Kendall Joseph
I just joined this list about a week ago and want to thank everyone for the recent discussion on new riders and tandeming. My wife and I are close to making the decision to get a Tandem in the near future. We have talked to several couples who enjoy it and had our first test ride on a Burley thanks to the kind folks at Tandems Limited in Birmingham, AL. A tandem seems like a good choice for us since we are both avid cyclists. We both have road bikes and full-suspension Mt. Bikes. I also commute to work most days an old beater bike (for those of you counting, were up to 5 bikes). I'm not sure where we can put a tandem in a 2-bedroom apartment, oh well, I guess we can just get rid of one of the couches, or maybe the kitchen table. ;-) I have pretty much decided that we need a tandem, but wasn't so sure about her yet. But I think I finally got her to really want a tandem this past weekend. My secret? I took her out for a tough 38-mile ride in some hilly country in the heart of Tennessee. I'm a stronger climber and faster too, but she did a good job although she was worn out by the end of the ride. As we loaded the bikes on the car, she said something like "I can't wait until we can get a tandem."
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From: Alan Wickman
I told my wife that there had been quite a discussion on "new riders" since Dennis Whitehead's original posting and my follow-up that asked why some tandem couples fail. In addition to the postings to the list itself, I have had about a half-dozen interesting chats on the side with list members that sent me private notes. Several of the chats on the side also related to the failure/success thing, while several others related to the selection of our first tandem. The chats regarding selection of a tandem were especially helpful, because several people had experience with the particular model that I'm now considering most seriously.
My wife was interested in reading this. So I took the digest (all 2.8MB) and selected the relevant postings. I trimmed all the headers and footers down to just the poster's name. I deleted all the references that were repeated (as we often do in referring to an earlier posting). I wrapped all the paragraphs and put it on pages with 0.8" margins. In other words, I cleaned it up and compressed it as much as possible. To this, I added all my private discussions, cleaned up in the same way.
The printed result was 30 pages long. Tandeming impressed my wife. Now T@H has impressed her. She called my compilation a book. She read about half of it and rolled over and went to sleep. But I think that she found it interesting before it put her to sleep.
To distill the whole thing, it helps a great deal if both members of the team want tandeming to succeed and they've done enough homework that they know what they're getting into and are realistic with regard their own personal situations. Certain combinations of personalities (i.e., two dominant persons) may make it more difficult to succeed. Several of the best success stories involved one avid cyclist and a partner that wasn't cycling much, but was still interested and committed to fitness. Postings by Alex and others made it clear that there are exceptions to every one of these generalizations. But if you're talking with a couple about tandeming, it still might help to know them.
The introvert / extrovert thing was an interesting spinoff. I suspect that it really isn't of any importance, although most of the T@H posters appear to be pretty extrovert-ish.
In my original posting, I questioned a comment made by Paul Kopit in which he referred to the failure rate of tandemists. Were I to count responses, it would seem that successes are prevalent. Yet successes are easier to remember. ("Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan.") Paul Kopit subsequently reminded us of adult "garage bikes". I have 4 adult bikes in my garage, two of which I should sell. A number of the members of this list have 3 or more tandems. Paul Kopit and several others suggested that the way to limit your exposure to failure is to buy a used tandem. Makes sense to me. Of course, your credibility in giving this advice is probably heightened if the used tandem you refer to isn't one from the back of your garage.
So now I am one of you - almost. We are committed to buying a tandem. Thank you for all of the kind advice. I suspect that I wasn't the only one that benefited from it. I hope so, anyway. After all, it was 30 pages long.
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